COLUMBUS, Ohio — Ohio State’s 2023 recruiting class has mostly remained in the background since it arrived in Columbus, but that’s about to change.
As this class embarks on its third season, it’s poised to take on a bigger role within the program. This group is a key part of the 2025 roster aimed at successfully defending their title as national champions. So far, only one member has secured a starting position, but as OSU approaches the offseason, more are likely to step up.
In this episode of Buckeye Talk, Stephen Means, Stefan Krajisnik, and Andrew Gillis discuss a few players entering their third year who are ready for breakout performances. Additionally, Stephen acknowledges a mistake he made.
Thank you for tuning in to Buckeye Talk!
Stephen Means (00:11.29)
Welcome back to Buckeye Talk! I’m Stephen Means, joined by Tiffan Kreisnick and Andrew Gillis. It’s Thursday Big Pod time, and we’re diving into our annual awards since it’s award season—at least in the entertainment world. In the sports realm, I only know when the Super Bowl is—it’s a week from Sunday! That’s my timeline, especially since I don’t have to cover a football game until August. Well, that’s not entirely true; I’ll be covering the spring game in April, which will be the next football clash for me.
We kicked off this award back in 2020 when we were all stuck indoors looking for creative ideas, leading to the Marshawn Latimore and Malik Hooker Award. I believe it was initiated even before Nathan and I joined, but we officially made it a tradition. For context, remember Marshawn Latimore and Malik Hooker’s impressive stint at Ohio State in 2016? Latimore had numerous interceptions and several pick-sixes, ultimately becoming a top 15 NFL draft pick. However, Latimore’s path was rocky; Hooker arrived as a low-rated recruit and had to bide his time for his first two years, but he exploded onto the scene in 2016. On the other hand, Latimore had injury struggles during his initial years but finally broke out in 2016 to become one of the top cornerbacks in college football.
This award is rooted in the understanding that the third year of a college football player’s career is crucial. It’s typically when they decide whether to go pro or return. For some, like Caleb Downs, it’s clear that he won’t be around after 2025. Others, like a Mecca Bucca, could have gone pro after 2023 and likely been a top 60 pick, but he could return for another year, demonstrating a stronger case for a first-round draft selection—a path Chris Olave took.
The focus here is on players who may not have made a significant impact in their first two years. This could range from being a mere backup to not playing at all, yet when opportunity knocks and preparation meets favorable circumstances, players can transform from having little to no playing time to key contributors.
Now, let’s discuss the 2023 recruiting class, which was ranked fourth in the nation and first in the Big Ten. This class includes eight recruits, with Carnell Tate being the only five-star. So far, some players from this class have not panned out as expected: Noah Rogers (ranked 52) played minimal snaps before transferring to NC State, Calvin Simpson-Hunt (ranked 63) saw limited action and now is at Baylor, and others like Jayden Bonsu and Cedric Hawkins have also moved on to different schools.
The only player who has secured a starting role so far is Carnell Tate (ranked 58), who had a productive season as the starting Z receiver. That leaves Andrew to choose from everyone else as we discuss potential breakout players from this class.
I also reached out for input from our listeners and will be sharing some rankings. Stefan, I’ll let you kick it off. Who’s your top pick for someone you believe will shine this upcoming year, even if they haven’t done much in their first two seasons?
Stefan Krajisnik (05:26.236)
You know the answer to that, and our listeners do too. It’s Arvell Reese, the linebacker. He’s next in line and could be an All-American. I might have already mentioned him in my overly optimistic draft predictions. Playing alongside Sonny Styles should really help him this year. We haven’t projected our defensive depth chart yet, but I’m eager to hear more about that. Do you think we’ll debate whether it’s CJ Hicks or Arvell starting alongside Sonny, or is CJ more of a defensive lineman now?
I believe we’ll eventually debate whether Arvell Reese will make the first team All-Big Ten or second team All-American. Just kidding! We’ll delve into that more on Monday, but I do think Arvell is set to be the starting Mike linebacker next year.
Stefan Krajisnik (06:22.258)
Absolutely! Playing alongside Sonny Styles this season and getting to learn from Cody Simon in 2024 will do wonders for Arvell Reese. We’ve seen glimpses of his instincts and athleticism, and with 309 defensive snaps from the previous season under his belt, that experience paired with a strong spring and fall camp will only help him. I recall Jim Knowles describing him as being on a “path of destruction,” and even without Knowles, that sentiment still holds true. I genuinely believe he’s on the verge of becoming a standout player.
Stephen Means (07:08.303)
Yeah!
Stefan Krajisnik (07:17.492)
This past season was just a taste of what he can do, playing a specialized role in a three-linebacker set. Every time I watched him, I found myself wishing he could get more playing time, thinking, “Why does one of the best linebackers—who’s a fifth-year captain—need to be on the field for every play? Can’t we see a bit more of Arvell Reese?” I’m really excited to watch him develop. I think he’s destined to become one of Ohio State’s great linebackers, and I see a fantastic season ahead for him in 2025. Given the reps he got, I don’t think he’ll be one of those players who suddenly starts clicking in November; he’s going to show up ready to make big plays against Texas.
Stephen Means (08:29.904)
I remember when he said something that made us look at each other and realize he was ready for what’s next. He’s played 309 snaps so far, recording 43 tackles, four tackles for loss, half a sack, and seven pressures, while allowing only nine catches on ten targets in coverage for just 64 yards. He’s positioned well, and with Sonny Styles returning, I believe that will significantly benefit Arvell more than anyone else. Stefan and I are clearly very invested in Arvell’s potential, partly because we’re from Cleveland and he has connections there. It makes sense that we’d be more interested in a player with those roots. If we don’t highlight local talent, who will?
I think Sonny Styles being back is crucial for Arvell Reese. There’s a huge difference between saying he might be a star and knowing he has to be a star right from the start due to a lack of experience at linebacker. With Sonny in the mix, Arvell can grow into his role rather than feeling all the pressure from the get-go. By midseason, people will see what an Ohio State linebacker looks like.
Where did Arvell rank on your list?
Andrew (10:40.699)
He was high on my list, but not my top choice.
Andrew (10:47.148)
I didn’t select him as my number one just to be different; I genuinely believe he’s a strong contender. Sure, he played 309 snaps, so there’s experience, but it’s different when you’re alongside seasoned players like Cody Simon and Sonny Styles. He’ll face more challenges ahead, starting with Texas instead of teams like Northwestern or Purdue.
That’s why having Sonny Styles is so crucial for Arvell—this defense has loads of potential, but they’re also turning over eight starters. I think it’s fair to expect them to be a top 10 defense again, given their talent. However, transitioning might take some time. It’s not exactly realistic to expect players to step in and immediately perform at their peak during a tough matchup against likely top 10 competition.
Sonny’s presence allows Arvell to ease into his role, so by the end of the season, he’ll look like the linebacker Ohio State fans expect. I believe people outside the Ohio State ecosystem might not know who he is yet, but as the season progresses, they’ll start to take notice of his skills.
Andrew (13:00.418)
I think he’ll start shining early in the season, even if not in the opening game, and Sonny will help him with that.
Stefan Krajisnik (13:05.79)
What’s interesting is that while we may have high hopes for him within the Ohio State community, I agree with you, Andrew. Nationally, people might wonder where he came from. He’s not a total unknown to Ohio State fans, but now is the moment for him to elevate his game. We’ve seen glimpses, and it’s time for him to put it all together. I believe he’s going to rise to the occasion.
Stephen Means (13:43.27)
Before we move on to Andrew’s first pick, I sent out a survey to our Texas audience via 614-350-3315. I made a mistake in that survey, which some of the texters pointed out, but I’m not going to reveal who I left out until we get to that individual. I initially provided 10 names when I should have offered 11. So, I’m acknowledging that error now—I messed up, and I apologize. However, we can’t go through this podcast without mentioning that player because they absolutely deserve to be included.
That said, among the 10 names I sent, it’s important to note that while nobody’s perfect—sometimes you win and sometimes you lose to Michigan—it’s crucial to own up to mistakes. There’s a distinct gap between the top four players and the other six, and I’m curious to see if, despite any differences in ranking, we might end up feeling similarly as the discussion unfolds. R.L. Reese placed third in our survey with a score of 3.8, and Stefan, I knew you would pick him first—come on! He received 20.8 percent of the first-place votes, and I have a feeling Andrew is about to choose one of the other two players ahead of him right now.
Andrew (15:28.014)
Should I go ahead and select that player, Stephen Means? I’m going to take Caden McDonald. I think he’s primed for a really excellent year.
Stephen Means (15:30.668)
That’s exactly what I anticipated!
Andrew (15:52.896)
This will be interesting to watch because, during Jim Knowles’ last two years, he often highlighted Jack Sawyer. While Sawyer’s stats might not tell the full story, Knowles emphasized how vital he was to the defense. I believe we’ll see something similar with Caden McDonald. Despite having only 20 career tackles, he stands at 326 pounds. We noticed his impact during the Penn State game when he stepped in, essentially shutting down their running game when he needed to.
Ohio State won 20-13, thanks in part to McDonald preventing any movement up the middle. He may not rack up seven sacks and 50 tackles next season, but I genuinely believe he will become one of the best one-technique nose tackles in the country. By December or January of 2026, McDonald will likely face a tough decision about entering the NFL draft due to strong evaluations of his performance.
Andrew (18:15.358)
I’m excited to see him play. When other defensive linemen start talking about him and noting how good he is, that stands out to me. People have even referred to him as “baby Tyleek.” McDonald is a talented player, and while his stats might not reflect it, I think he could be one of Ohio State’s next great interior prospects—especially with Edrick Houston likely playing next to him. If both McDonald and Houston are in the interior, McDonald will be crucial, absorbing double teams and handling the chaos that comes with defensive line play.
Stephen Means (19:22.15)
That’s one large straw.
Andrew (19:25.631)
Yeah, he’s a massive guy!
Stefan Krajisnik (19:29.204)
Sometimes you get standard straws and other times you get thicker ones for smoothies—some straws just need to be bigger!
Stephen Means (19:33.696)
Caden McDonald is ranked as the 269th player and the 38th defensive lineman in the 2020 recruiting class. It’s surprising that a player from Georgia didn’t garner more recruitment interest, but being considered “undersized” may have played a role in that.
Andrew (19:48.834)
That sometimes happens; Georgia prefers their defensive linemen to be taller and longer.
Stephen Means (19:55.216)
Right.
Stephen Means (20:00.582)
It’s true. McDonald does have a different build compared to players like Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis. He has recorded 247 career snaps, with 20 tackles, three tackles for loss, two pass breakups, and three pressures overall. While you mentioned he might not be producing massive stats, we’ve seen similar path players like Tyleek Williams do remarkably well in their roles. Now, Ohio State potentially has two interior defenders from Georgia, both of whom could be very impactful.
I realize he didn’t make the top three because he was left off my list, but I can see him being among the top four or five players had I included him. I apologize to Caden McDonald, our audience, and our texters for that oversight. By the time I realized my error, it was too late to change the votes. I wouldn’t want to be in the position of a teacher who has to reassign homework after realizing they forgot some questions—everyone would be upset!
So, Stefan, would Caden McDonald have been a pick in your top four if I had included him?
Stefan Krajisnik (21:57.962)
I had Caden McDonald in fourth place on my list. It’s interesting because, while I’ve tended to lean towards a more cautious outlook regarding the 2025 season due to all the changes, your list made me realize that there are some solid players on the roster. Kaden’s contributions were significant, especially in the Penn State game—his key plays made a real difference, and it’s hard to say how the game would have turned out without him. He truly appeared to belong on the field, much like Arvel.
Stephen Means (22:02.362)
Okay.
Stefan Krajisnik (22:27.242)
He played regularly in 2024 but was behind some very talented players. Even as Edric Houston started to shine, Kaden was consistently the third defensive tackle behind Tylek. He may not have had every game, but he was there all season and is fully prepared, just like Arvel, to make a significant leap.
Stephen Means (23:30.998)
I didn’t expect both of these guys to still be available when it got back to me.
Stefan Krajisnik (23:37.226)
Thanks again.
Stephen Means (23:45.126)
As a fan of wide receivers, I’m excited to pick the only five-star from Ohio State’s 2023 recruiting class. They’ve recently updated their 247 composite rankings, which has caused some changes among former five-stars, but Brandon Innis was originally ranked as a five-star when he signed. He was rated as the number 38 player and the fifth wide receiver nationally. Despite only having 227 career snaps with 15 catches for 234 yards and two touchdowns—most notably a third-down completion in the national championship and a touchdown against Penn State—the lack of opportunity, particularly when a Mecca got hurt in 2023, has limited his production.
Stefan Krajisnik (25:42.578)
I picked Arvel Reese, but I believe Brandon Innis could lead this team in receptions next year.
Stephen Means (25:52.758)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Stefan Krajisnik (25:54.282)
I think highly of Arvel, but so highly of Brandon as well. He didn’t break out because he was overshadowed by a Mecca, which is a significant factor. I’m really optimistic about Innis having an incredible season, and by the end of 2025, we might be reflecting on this year’s receiving corps as even better than last year’s.
Stephen Means (26:41.718)
That’s likely true, especially considering Innis and a Mecca could be comparable. Plus, you’ll have JJ as a sophomore and Carnell Tate as a junior, making it a strong year. Regarding Innis leading in receptions, it’s worth noting that since Ryan Day became head coach in 2019, except for a couple of seasons, the slot receiver has consistently led in catches. This year, a Mecca had 81 receptions, and in the past, players like Paris Campbell with 90 catches back in 2018 and Jackson Smith-Njigba with 95 catches in 2021 performed exceptionally in the slot.
While it may not happen every year, particularly the last two with Garrett Wilson and Marvin Harrison Jr. being standout options, I see a bright future for Brandon Innis as a potential superstar. What do you think, Andrew?
Andrew (27:59.662)
I believe we’re on the same page regarding the top three: McDonald, Reese, and Innis. Carnell Tate had a solid season with 52 catches and 733 yards, while Julian Fleming had 26 catches for 270 yards as Ohio State’s third receiver in 2023. I don’t think the number three receiver this upcoming season will find themselves in a situation like Fleming did this past season.
In 2021, when JSN, Wilson, and Olave were the main receivers, Olave was technically the only one under 1,000 yards.
Stephen Means (28:55.75)
He missed the Rose Bowl and had a game without a target.
Andrew (28:58.51)
I don’t expect to see that same level of production moving forward. And while Julian Sayin could be a standout, it’s a lot to ask for him to perform like CJ Stroud did right away, especially with everything that Stroud faced during his first couple of games.
Stephen Means (29:31.52)
Exactly, he was a five-star in his first year as a starter, just like Stroud was, and people were calling for Stroud to be benched after early struggles.
Andrew (29:40.216)
It’s easy to look back now and recognize how great he turned out to be, but at the start, few people realized it would go that way, which is an essential point in this discussion. You can’t assume Julian will instantly become what Stroud became without a little time to develop.
Andrew (30:39.032)
Exactly.
Andrew (30:42.594)
Yeah, that pain is still there.
Stephen Means (30:59.526)
What were your thoughts on Ohio State’s wide receivers going into the 2021 season? I keep bringing it up because we recognized they had great receivers, a new player in the slot, and a highly-touted quarterback that we hoped would excel, but we weren’t entirely convinced. Even after the first two games, there were doubts. I’m not comparing Julian Sayin to CJ Stroud in November 2021; rather, I think Julian is in a similar situation today as CJ was back on January 30, 2021. If that holds true, what does his future look like? Maybe after the Texas game, people might even consider benching him for Stavion Sinclair. But by season’s end, he could still have impressive numbers, especially with strong outside receivers established. He’s a new slot player—another former five-star wearing number 11—who just hasn’t had the right opportunities. This scenario mirrors what we saw in 2021, compounded with a defense that could experience some challenges.
Andrew (32:12.332)
So, the main reason I bring this up is that while I believe you need to count on Julian Sayin, the circumstances from 2021 may not be fully repeatable. You have to rely on Julian to maintain his level throughout the season. The 2021 running back duo comprised Trevion Henderson and Mayan Williams. You could argue that James Peoples and CJ Donaldson might be a better pair than that one.
Stephen Means (32:37.156)
Absolutely.
Andrew (32:39.63)
I believe so. So, it’s not unreasonable to say they could run the ball more effectively than in 2021. Regarding tight ends, Jeremy Ruckert was in the NFL, and I think his stats suffered due to the presence of three talented receivers. Everyone knew they graded out as top-round talent.
Stefan Krajisnik (32:47.146)
I’m hopeful about Donaldson too.
Stephen Means (32:52.878)
It’s that time of year, right?
Andrew (33:09.294)
Max Claire is also an impressive talent who might impact those numbers. Perhaps he could achieve around 40 to 45 catches for 550 yards?
Stephen Means (33:22.246)
You really think the tight end will reach 40 to 45 catches?
Andrew (33:27.5)
I believe he’s the most skilled pass-catching tight end Ohio State has seen recently, so I don’t think it’s out of bounds. But it’s also essential to consider historical data about tight ends that haven’t played up to that level recently.
Stephen Means (33:31.994)
That’s not the actual question I posed. I was asking if you think he will actually do it.
Yes.
Stephen Means (33:42.372)
What I’m emphasizing is the difference in context—Max Claire has previously played at Purdue as their primary option, and now he’s entering a much more competitive situation at Ohio State.
Andrew (33:52.736)
Good players can still shine at Purdue; it’s the team’s overall performance that matters.
Stephen Means (33:57.198)
He was the sole offensive weapon they relied on there, and now he’s surrounded by more talent.
Andrew (33:58.7)
And he won’t be the only option at Ohio State.
Stephen Means (34:03.056)
There’s an argument to be made that when Sayin drops back to throw, Claire could be fourth in the pecking order for targets. That changes everything for him. I’m not dismissing his talent; I’m saying that production depends heavily on opportunity rather than solely skill.
Stefan Krajisnik (34:25.514)
I expect it to be similar to this season.
Stephen Means (34:25.766)
Yes, because like Charles Barkley often says—that’s a crazy reference, but it’s fitting—we need to remember that just because someone is the leading scorer doesn’t make them a great player; it could just mean they’re the best among a group that’s not performing well. So, I’m not saying Max Clair’s numbers reflect his true talent; instead, they reflect his environment. I suspect his output will be lower than you predict, especially when there are so many other talented players on the field. If he exceeds 30 catches, I’d be surprised.
Andrew (35:59.522)
I think that’s a fair statement.
Stephen Means (36:03.352)
If he ends up with more than 30 catches this year, I’ll come back to this podcast to say I was completely wrong. I just don’t think that kind of opportunity will exist for him unless some injuries happen. Cade Stover had a solid season, and Ameka was not at full health, while in 2022, they missed their top receiver.
Stefan Krajisnik (37:56.938)
What was the original question related to Brandon?
Stephen Means (38:02.234)
Earlier, you mentioned that comparing numbers from the 2021 season to predict what someone like Max Claire could achieve, which was tied to Brandon Innis’ potential as well.
Andrew (38:09.23)
I wasn’t suggesting he would hit 45 to 50 catches, just that it’s not improbable for him to reach 40 to 45.
Stephen Means (38:30.742)
Given the current roster, I think opportunities for tight ends will be limited.
Stephen Means (48:36.682)
Malik Hartford could be the next breakout option, especially since a starting safety position is open. Playing alongside one of the best players in college football should help ease his transition into a bigger role. He played some in 2023, though not as much in 2024, which raises eyebrows considering Jalen McLean outperformed him in snaps. Both Hartford and McLean will compete for that starting spot along with possible new recruit Fahim Deleon. Malik has the chance to step up and could impress this coming season, making him a candidate for significant contributions.
Stephen Means (48:52.422)
He finished fifth in our Texters’ poll, but there’s a noticeable gap to the fourth spot, as he received only 1% of first-place votes. It’s interesting to note that every player on the list got at least one first-place vote.
He’s ranked 161 overall and is the 11th safety in the 2023 recruiting class. He’s played 253 snaps, starting a game last year when Josh Proctor was out, and he totaled 18 tackles with three pass breakups. He allowed just four catches for eight yards on seven targets, almost securing an interception but had a strange moment with Lathan Ransom during halftime of the Texas game.
Stephen Means (49:15.832)
I included Malik Hartford on the list for Texters, but I didn’t give him serious consideration. My concern is that he might not secure the other safety position. When Ohio State needed someone to step in for Latham Ransom during the Nebraska game, they opted for a true freshman instead of the second-year player who already started a game. So, I’m not sure how much to read into that, especially since there will be an entire offseason to sort out who will start alongside Caleb Downs. We didn’t consider Caleb for the breakout list simply because we’re not sure what a breakout would even mean for him—maybe if he wins the Heisman, but aside from that, it’s hard to gauge.
Stefan Krajisnik (50:00.638)
Right, and the competition for that role alongside him will be interesting.
Stephen Means (50:04.936)
Currently, it seems like Lorenzo could claim that Jordan Hancock position. I anticipate our upcoming podcast about the defense will generate some intriguing conversation, as we need to consider who will start against a top-tier opponent at the beginning of the season versus who might have earned a starting role by season’s end. While I think Lorenzo will start, I’m curious about your thoughts.
Stefan Krajisnik (50:10.502)
Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, especially as it could influence Malik Hartford’s role. I believe Jalen McLean has the talent to fit into that position if they decide to move him, which could open up an opportunity for Malik at safety. Angel seemed more optimistic about Malik than I did; I had two other guys I preferred over him.
Stephen Means (50:34.942)
Yes, the developments in the secondary will certainly be worth watching.
Stephen Means (51:24.006)
Now I’m selecting the last guy from our top four, Luke Montgomery, who received 10.6% of first-place votes. He’s ranked as the 92nd player overall and the number three interior offensive lineman. He’s logged 305 career snaps and has allowed six pressures over 133 pass-protecting attempts. A lot of those pressures came during his first complete game against Texas after rotating in the first two games. In our recent offensive depth chart, I had him as a starter, especially considering the competition at the other guard position where Carson Hensman could also start.
The quarterback battle is undoubtedly the most compelling storyline of the offseason, followed closely by the interior offensive line battles and the safety competitions. Considering Luke’s experiences at the end of last season, despite facing a tough defense, he’s gained valuable experience. Entering year three, he could evolve into an All-Big Ten caliber player, or at least be a competent guard, as having a year of early game time before being fully ready can greatly aid in development.
Stefan Krajisnik (53:08.67)
I completely agree. Throughout the season, both Ryan Day and Chip Kelly frequently praised Luke Montgomery, leading us to wonder why he wasn’t playing more. Once he did get significant playing time, we found ourselves asking why he wasn’t the starting left guard. His trajectory from being praised to finally playing up to expectations was promising in 2024. He was the next player I would have selected if available, being fourth on my list behind the guys we’ve mentioned before. He demonstrated his potential with some impressive plays, despite some inconsistency.
Stephen Means (53:48.912)
Let’s not dwell on past mistakes, okay? We all have our off moments.
Stefan Krajisnik (54:04.97)
He had some real standout blocks that showcased his ability. If he can find that consistent middle ground, he could turn into a really solid guard. I’m looking forward to seeing his progress, and I’d be surprised if he’s not a starter by 2025, potentially starting 15 to 17 games that season.
Stephen Means (54:46.374)
Let’s get into this; who ranks higher for you, Luke Montgomery or Austin Cerra-Veld?
Andrew (54:59.234)
I’d pick Luke Montgomery. For me, it was a tough choice between him and others, but I leaned toward him.
Stephen Means (55:00.194)
So, it seems we’re on the same page then.
Stephen Means (55:05.752)
I think Montgomery likely has the best shot at winning a starting spot out of all the interior linemen competing for jobs.
Andrew (55:20.888)
Yes, definitely. With the two new transfer tackles, there are definitely options on the interior. Assuming Hensman is solid at center, there are two guard positions open. The candidates for those spots include Montgomery, Cerra-Veld, Shibola, and perhaps others like Padilla who could emerge. I feel confident Montgomery can maintain his spot after his playoff performances, as Ohio State clearly showed trust in him during that time. I don’t think they’ll be employing a three-guard rotation anymore; Montgomery should secure a starting position.
Stephen Means (56:08.454)
So our list of breakout candidates includes Arvel Reese, Caden McDonald, Brandon Innis, Jermaine Matthews, Malik Hartford, and Luke Montgomery. The Texas list had Jermaine Matthews, Brandon Innis, Arvel Reese, Luke Montgomery, Malik Hartford, and then Austin Cerra-Veld. Had I not overlooked Caden McDonald, he would’ve likely made it into the top six. I’ll confess this was my “lost to Michigan” moment, so I’ll be critical of myself as well.
Stefan Krajisnik (56:43.582)
You’ll have to mention Caden McDonald on it for the next few podcasts.
Stephen Means (56:46.924)
Absolutely! I’ll discuss how that error led to an incredible series of podcast discussions and I’ll leave no doubt in proclaiming my podcasting prowess. Let’s take a break and see if I can continue to prove myself.
Stefan Krajisnik (56:55.146)
What an impressive title to hold.
Stephen Means (57:11.172)
Welcome back to Buckeye Talk, where we’re discussing potential breakout stars in their third year. So far, we’ve highlighted Arvel Reese, Caden McDonald, Brandon Innis, Jermaine Matthews, Malik Hartford, and Luke Montgomery. Let’s look into a few more names. I sometimes say things that don’t quite make sense, but that’s why I prefer talking to writing—I have Grammarly to catch my errors there. If you’d like to give feedback on my speaking skills, text me at 614-350-3315. In two weeks, we’ll draw for a prize, so let me know if I should improve my speaking style. I may continue to mumble, but we’ll see. Stefan, who’s your last pick?
Stefan Krajisnik (57:59.882)
I’m going to go with Austin Cerra-Veld. We touched on him before the break, and I think he’s another strong candidate for a starting position this season. I don’t have his exact snap count handy, but he played a significant role in the 2024 season, possibly even more than some of the other names mentioned. They relied on him as an emergency option whenever the offensive line situation changed. For instance, he filled in at left guard when Donovan Jackson was injured and rotated between left and right guard with Montgomery and Shibola. I think if Montgomery ends up starting at left guard, Cerra-Veld can still play a key role and save some reps for the starters as the season progresses.
Stephen Means (58:54.789)
Absolutely.
Stefan Krajisnik (59:22.206)
I’m really interested to see how they approach guard positions. I think having a player who can effectively switch between spots is beneficial, especially with the length of modern seasons. I mean, there’s no reason why offensive linemen shouldn’t get some rotation like receivers do. I can see the value in Austin Cerra-Veld coming in for 30 snaps while not necessarily starting. While he should aspire for that starting role, having versatile options like him can be a real asset for the team.
Stephen Means (01:00:15.256)
I agree. It’s interesting you mention that because I’ve considered that concept of rotating guards.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:00:44.5)
Yes, exactly!
Andrew (01:00:53.708)
However, I’m not in favor of it. I think it’s important to settle on a consistent offensive line. Continuity is critical, particularly on the offensive line compared to other positions like receiver or corner, where rotating is easier. On the offensive line, chemistry is far more crucial. We saw that in 2023 when the line struggled with inconsistent performances from players in various positions. They began to find a rhythm over the course of the year, spotting weak links and improving their coordination. While there’s a place for substitution, it shouldn’t be as frequent as it is for other positions.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:40.18)
Weren’t they switching up the guards back then?
Stephen Means (01:02:41.977)
Yes, they were rotating the guards.
Andrew (01:02:42.88)
True, but they were also gaining more experience. I feel that if you have too many guards, it becomes counterproductive. It’s similar to the saying about quarterbacks: if you have two, you have none. I’d prefer Ohio State to identify two solid guards they trust enough to keep on the field consistently.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:02:47.795)
Rotating the guards, right.
Stephen Means (01:02:59.565)
Yeah.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:05.866)
Do you believe they’ll have that kind of lineup? Are you confident that the five they select for week one will be effective?
Andrew (01:03:10.7)
With the two tackles and Hensman at center, yes, I feel confident. Montgomery should start at left guard, and then it’s a matter of choosing between Shibola or Cerra-Veld at right guard. Ideally, one of them will step up and establish themselves so that we don’t have to rotate players as much next year.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:03:28.776)
Those are the two guys who had to switch this year.
Andrew (01:03:40.076)
Exactly. We shouldn’t have to take Searveld off the field, especially now that he’s entering his third year. He played out of necessity last season due to injuries, but this is his time to step up. If he truly excels, there’s no need to rotate in Shibola or anyone else just for the sake of keeping players fresh. I’d prefer to have my best offensive line on the field, and substitutions should only come in blowout situations.
Stephen Means (01:04:47.114)
I anticipate where you’re going with this.
Andrew (01:04:48.93)
Oh, come on.
Stephen Means (01:04:50.03)
I can guess what you’re about to say next.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:04:54.398)
I was merely going to ask if you think it’s unreasonable to rotate guards against Texas.
Stephen Means (01:05:00.294)
You can’t win if you rotate your guards.
Andrew (01:05:02.35)
Exactly, and my point is you shouldn’t need to rotate them. If Ohio State were confident in their guards, they wouldn’t have felt the need to switch players around in the playoffs. Rotating should come from a place of necessity, not as a planned strategy.
Stephen Means (01:05:22.758)
Exactly.
Andrew (01:05:31.448)
Chemistry and consistency are crucial, so I want to see the best guards playing consistently without regularly switching them out.
Stephen Means (01:05:41.178)
To clarify, even when they had a healthy offensive line, they were still rotating players like Tegra and Austin.
Andrew (01:05:50.958)
That shouldn’t have been necessary, though.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:05:51.934)
I get your perspective. When the idea was first introduced, I thought it was outrageous too, but it ended up working, which made me question why the offensive line arrangement has to be traditional.
Stephen Means (01:06:06.212)
Right.
Andrew (01:06:09.378)
It’s football; it evolves, and there are always new strategies to explore.
Stephen Means (01:06:20.134)
Absolutely.
Andrew (01:06:23.602)
I still think rotating guards against a high-stakes opponent like Texas is risky, especially considering it’s the first game of the season.
Stephen Means (01:06:29.178)
Coaches generally don’t enjoy starting with top 10 matchups, especially in week one. It’s a difficult situation.
Andrew (01:06:35.564)
You said something about the forward pass; it’s just funny to invoke that in this context.
Stephen Means (01:06:50.694)
Right, people have adapted over time.
Andrew (01:06:54.746)
The game of football is ever-changing.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:06:58.568)
Exactly!
Stephen Means (01:07:12.006)
But regarding the Texas game, I doubt they’ll rotate guards since it’s such a critical matchup early in the season.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:09:08.68)
I think it’s possible they might rotate against Texas but then settle on a fixed rotation as the season continues if one player proves to be significantly better.
Stephen Means (01:09:24.198)
I would lean towards getting through this initial tough game and then reassessing before the next matchups. After that, if they need to adjust, that’s when I think they’ll evaluate their options.
Andrew (01:10:11.5)
This conversation is amusing, considering the players left on our list. I’m choosing Jason Moore because we’ve shifted focus to players who may not immediately have starting roles. For instance, players like Josh Padilla are in a competitive situation, but with Hensman likely solidified at center and Montgomery pushing for a guard position, options are limited.
With a player like Jason Moore, he has the size and potential that you might expect from recruits for top programs like Georgia or Alabama. He could emerge as a crucial third defensive tackle this year. While we might not be discussing him in the same breath as All-American or All-Big Ten potential, I believe he could still carve out a significant role on the defensive line as the third tackle. The competition will include players like Tyone Malone and Will Smith Jr., but I can definitely see Jason Moore stepping up in this capacity.
Andrew (01:12:32.384)
I really see Jason Moore as a strong long-term prospect. If Edrick Houston had stayed at edge rusher, we’d likely be discussing Moore as a starting defensive tackle. I believe he has the potential to be the starting three-tech if Houston was regarded as a better edge player. Jason Moore is explosive, large, physical, and a talented football player, but he’s currently behind two exceptional tackles, likely among the best in the Big Ten. I envision him as a valuable rotational player, getting around 20 snaps a game—30 might be pushing it, but 20 seems realistic given his skills.
Stephen Means (01:13:23.204)
If Edrick was still a defensive end and Hero Cano hadn’t transferred to Texas, we might be seeing more of Jason Moore. He’s ranked 66th overall and is the only top 100 recruit we haven’t discussed so far, with 65 career snaps and 10 tackles. Stefan, where did you place him in your rankings?
Andrew (01:13:28.749)
That’s a valid observation.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:13:50.632)
I placed him right after Hartford. I don’t have the exact number here, but I think I had him around seven. The defensive tackle situation is going to be intriguing, particularly when considering depth and who might emerge as the third or fourth tackles on the team. Jason Moore definitely has a chance to be part of that competition and could make himself valuable if he steps up.
Andrew (01:14:56.632)
Absolutely. Think back to Tylic Williams; he was dealing with injuries early in the season, missing games against teams like Michigan State and Marshall. Ohio State will open against Texas, followed by Grambling State and then the Ohio Bobcats. If a player like Houston were to have a minor injury during that stretch, those games present an opportunity for Moore to step in without risking the team’s performance.
Stephen Means (01:15:50.484)
Yes, your point makes sense, especially observing how the season can unfold and how injuries can create openings.
Andrew (01:16:43.564)
Furthermore, there’s potential for headlines around Jason Moore to surface as he progresses throughout the year. You can just imagine coaches discussing how he could start at many other programs while also emphasizing the commitment he’s made to Ohio State. He possesses all the attributes to be a standout—impressive size and athleticism—but he’s behind two talented recruits, making it harder for him to get playtime right now.
Stephen Means (01:17:09.028)
I’ll reserve judgement until I see Moore in action. It’s essential to evaluate performance, especially given past challenges faced by the team in depth at defensive tackle.
Stephen Means (01:17:15.726)
Tylic Williams’ absence during those games against Marshall and Michigan State raised concerns, particularly since Edrick was not yet a defensive tackle, which contributed to the struggles on defense.
Andrew (01:19:33.87)
That’s why depth and performance at tackle are so crucial, leaving us with three names still on our list. Thurman was rated seventh by our texters, while Padilla and Keenholz were rated ninth and tenth respectively. The reason they landed low could relate to our feelings about their immediate starting potential.
Stephen Means (01:19:46.165)
Exactly. I believe Padilla and Keenholz could quickly move up this list if they secure starting positions.
Andrew (01:20:44.94)
Yes, I agree. Padilla seems to have the best chance to become a starter, putting him in the same conversation as Moore. However, I suspect that Moore will end up as a valuable third defensive tackle while Padilla might transition into a starting role.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:21:15.3)
I wholeheartedly agree. The center position is one I wouldn’t ever rotate around. The center’s role is too critical; rotating centers can disrupt key plays, cadence, and overall effectiveness.
Andrew (01:21:22.372)
Absolutely, never rotate centers. It’s risky for the cadence and communication among the offensive line.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:21:34.698)
Exactly, it’s imperative to keep that consistency.
Andrew (01:22:08.48)
As we’ve gone through this list, we have players like Matthews projected as potential All-Americans, and even McDonald seen as an All-Big Ten candidate. I’m curious about where Jelani Thurman fits in. Given that he’s had more opportunities than others on this list, it feels a bit harsh to rank him low.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:22:48.392)
I feel there are players on the list who haven’t had the same exposure, but Jelani has had some chances and hasn’t made the most of them compared to others like Moore.
Stephen Means (01:23:15.238)
Ryan Day frequently mentioned Jelani during fall camp and early in the season. It’s interesting to think about his visibility within the program and whether it was meant as motivation or a sign of genuine development.
Andrew (01:25:15.31)
Indeed, with limited production—like 189 snaps and six catches in his first two years—it could have been a way to encourage him rather than indicating he’s ready to blow up this season.
Stephen Means (01:25:38.31)
Challenges exist given the uncertainty around the role of tight ends this coming season with new transfers and a solid blocking core like Kazmeric. It raises questions about how much playtime Jelani will see.
Andrew (01:27:15.646)
Exactly, with the addition of transfers and other established players, it puts Jelani in a tough situation. Now’s the time for him to show he can be an impactful part of the offense.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:27:29.404)
I completely agree; it’s vital for him to take that step forward this year, otherwise we might find ourselves having the same discussions next year about his potential.
Andrew (01:28:03.748)
Right, it’s crucial for him to avoid being one of those players who we keep hoping will breakthrough without results.
Stephen Means (01:28:15.976)
That’s the essence of the third year—players have had the chance to learn and grow. If they’re not showing significant improvement by now, it creates concern about their future with the team.
Andrew (01:28:25.976)
Exactly, keeping continuity in the offensive scheme should aid in their development, especially since many have been part of the program for a while.
Stefan Krajisnik (01:28:39.002)
Well put. I think some players could face the pressure of getting results this year or risk being evaluated differently as they approach their senior year.
Stephen Means (01:28:50.006)
The key here is recognizing that while potential is important, performance is what truly matters when it comes to winning titles. Thank you all for joining us; if you have thoughts, feel free to reach out to 614-350-3315 for feedback.
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